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I suppose I did something similar. Starting as a mechanic I moved into auto electrics, then into industrial electrics working on nearly every type of low voltage stuff (under 1000v) well even worked on high voltage but under supervision. Becoming an Electrician and then Electrical engineer (over level 3 qualifications I consider makes one initialled to that label).

When I look back oh did I take some chances? I did not really decide to become an Electrician I kind off drifted into it. However all the way through I was cards in. So in the early years there was always some one to limit what I did.

Latter I was the guy limiting what someone else did.

Nearly every tradesman will at some point come across something which is beyond his skill. At which point he has to pass the work onto someone who can do it. Or at least be able to ask advice.

Even so one is from time to time caught out. I remember one machine failing because it was over greased. So simple but really pulled my hair out over that one.

To my mind no one with less than 10 years experience in their trade should ever become a sole trader. In my trade I still find the odd thing I had never seen before. One which comes to mind is diodes in the earth feed to a boat. Seems to go against everything I was taught but still a recognised way to stop hull erosion.

Most jobs I have done have had tool box talks or courses to keep one up to date. I still get two mags from the IET so I am updated. One which is rather new is Electric cars which require a TT supply. Without the trade mags I would be unaware of that.

So when I here of someone who has gone as a sole trader with electrics as just part of their work I cringe. How can they possible either learn in first place or stay updated? OK not only sole traders had a firm come to fit a shower for my mother and walked in to see a so called electrician trying to sort out a RCD tripping with nothing but a multi-meter. I had to go and get my test set to sort it out for him.

I no longer work on domestic. The Part P notification really put pay to that. You need to work at least 20% domestic for the fees paid to scheme providers to pay for themselves. Just too easy for a job to become one which need LABC involvement.

But fools rush in where angles fear to tread. And I know there are many out there who tattle work well beyond their ken. The problem is the house holder does not know what to ask for. A city & guilds 2382 means you can read a book. But a city & guilds 2391 does show you have the skill to inspect and test work to ensure it is safe. That does not of course mean you use the skills but at least you know your doing it wrong.

Oddly my degree in Electrical and Electronic engineering taught me far less about working on domestic premises than the C&G 2391. But people jump to the conclusion he has a degree he must know what he is doing. Believe me I will never need to work out power sharing for a domestic property.

So all I can say is keep off my patch!

I don't suppose ericmark can quite work me out, as I answer posts on all sorts, so here goes.
My farther was a brickie, so building is in the blood.
The first work I had was painting and decorating, working with an old chap who had been in the trade all his life, and we used to some pretty high class stuff.
I came away from that, mainly due to my fear of hieghts.

I then went into the gas industry (hence the plumbing posts) and spent what seemed like forever in college wiping joints on lead pipes, cutting and threading etc

When electrics started being used on gas appliances, they started running training courses. These courses were, to put it bluntly, utter rubbish. Even without any further information, I couldn't see how you could test insulation with a lttle AVO at 3 volts.

So I took it on myself to get some propper training on the subject, but never took the exams (I just couldn't handle the maths involved)

That worked out well for me, when they cottoned on I was given the jobs with electical faults, got a bit of promotion, and spent quite a few years not doing much other than fault finding and wiring of heating systems

When I left them, I became a registered gas installer, and with a partner spent about 10 years putting in heating systems, also fitting bathrooms and kitchens, I love the kitchens, as working with wood has always been a hobby Often having to make up or modify non standard units. Of course the electics, as part of a kitchen were always one of the first jobs to plan. We used to insist all boxes were sunk dead level all round the room, and if possible to tie up with the tile sizes.

I'm glad I'm now retired, I hate to think how a kichen could be done in the same way with part P.
How many times the electrician would have to call round to remove the old, provide a temp supply (for tea making) Sink boxes and chase, run the cables, and then connect after tiling, all timed with the rest of the work.

As I say, now retired, I can spend time with my woodworking projects (Ihave a fully fitted workshop)
and my other little hobby of inventing tools, or modifying existing for a specific purpose.

As far as keeping up, I find it impossible, the forums help, but thing change so quickly now. I have to admit, I've no idea whatsoever on the latest gas boilers. Only last year I needed a new boiler, and despite having installed a great many, and worked on thousands, I had to employ a gas safe installer to install my own boiler - that hurt! I did the electrics though.

I have also had a varied working life. Started as a motor vehicle and bridge mechanic with local council tractors, wagons even building foot bridges from scratch.

I continued college and took the auto electrical exams. Because of the electric background I was trained to repair portable traffic lights.
I then moved to SLD pumps because of my traffic light repair and they trained my how to repair pumps.

Moved to Algeria as auto electrician but often was the only electrician on site so had to work on low voltage (220v - 380v) and fridges and freezers also repaired and that is container size not household.

Falkland was next big move mainly auto electrics but also looked after 4 250kva generators which were used paralleled up. When I worked on the mountain sites again often I was only electrician so did all. Also repaired many small generators.

From there same firm Sizewell power station by this time worked on anything electric from batching plant to tower crane although like you I did not like heights.

From then on I worked on low voltage the auto electrics were too mucky for me. Mainly large projects including working as a tunnel boring machine electrician in Hong Kong.

Worked as an electrical engineer on a couple of jobs from a pre-cast concrete factory to North West Water so the buck stopped with me. Even a one point installing alarms in BT buildings so often I was senior man on site.

In 2001 I took a series of exams as I only had auto electric qualification. Then had an industrial accident went to University and got my degree in electrical and electronic engineering and also again took more exams to update to 17th Edition. Now retired.

When I look back I did take some chances but I also had some one I could always ask. As well as work my father was the power station superintendent in local steel works and father-in-law was the Clark of works electrical for Liverpool Hospital Board.

When my son started his own business I was his technical adviser he is just finishing his degree so soon I will be asking him.

But I see these guys do a 6 month retrain then start up as a sole trader and I think they must make loads of errors even with some one to ask I did make mistakes but as sole trader who do they ask?

I read the account of the sole trader on here and my thoughts were if anyone tries to do that today they are very likely to break regulations and laws galore. When I started the wiring regulations were not even a British standard I think about 1992 they became BS7671.

You have my admiration ericmark, going for your degree later in life. Learning is always worthwhile, and can be enjoyed.

with electrics, I never took it past the simple domestic stuff, and would never pass any exams due to being totally hopeless with the maths involved, anything more than ohms law, and I'm in trouble.

I've always found the wiring of heating systems so simple though, and could remember the internal wiring of every control on the market at the time. Often designed a system for specific requirements. Hence my posts on another forum seem to involve motorised valves, as you may have noticed !

Sorry forum, I'm going off subject here.

I will assume my avatar has gone right over your head then? When my son first talked about imaginary numbers I replied "I use real maths" which of course was a little silly for an electrician who has to understand imaginary numbers to work out things like power factor correction.

My maths also not that good. Calculus was never my strong point and when they started putting batteries in calculators I at last did not have to guess where the decimal point went. I was never very good with a slide rule. But batteries never went flat!

Sorry Eric, You're right, over my head!

-5 x -5 = +25
+5 x +5 = +25
So it is impossible to find the square root of -25 using real numbers. However if we imagine that i (j for engineers) = square root of -1 then we can use this imaginary number to find the square root of -25 which will be 5 x i or written 5i.
What will often happen is further on in the calculation i will get canceled out.

Here endeth the first lesson.

Now with AC the peak of current does not always happen at the same point as the peak in voltage this is a problem as machines can seem to be using more power then is really the case.
Volts x Amps with DC = Watts however with AC
Volts x Amps x Power factor correction = Watts.

You will note many items show VA rather than Watts this is where the power factor is not unity. Transformers and Motors often need capacitors to correct the power factor.

OK endeth second lesson.

So to the domestic the most note worthy is the florescent lamp using the old inductive starting system which had a choke and a starter. The choke resulted in the power factor not being unity so will included a capacitor to correct this.

Bench testing a florescent lamp rated at 60W and 110v was drawing 0.8A well over the expected current. Remove the capacitor and it jumped to 1.1A no change in light output. Replace the capacitor and change the tapping on the auto transformer from 110v to 127v and the current dropped to 0.6A. All three showed no difference in the light output.

This experiment I did in 1992 in Sizewell B when I had fitted 25 x 60W florescent fittings in a tunnel my rough calculations was about 0.5A so 32 fittings would be 16A size of MCB so 25 fittings should be well within the 16A.

Wrong on using a clamp on ammeter I found drawing 24A no wonder the 16A MCB was tripping. Hence the bench test. When I changed the tapping to 128v on the auto transformers I found the last three failed to fire so set last 5 in the run to 110v and all worked A1.

Although I did not use the complicated maths it was the knowledge of it that caused me to do the tests and find a cure. I was bang on 16A with 25 x 60W florescent fittings when I finished.

Today we have HF florescent fittings which does not really care if a little over or under volts and a 60W fitting draws 60W. But the whole idea of only loading to 2/3 of capacity comes from what I have talked about.

P.S. I also had the learn the gas laws. But so long ago can't remember them now. I do remember being told the diesel engine does not run on the diesel cycle but the carrot cycle. May be you as a gas fitter can explain the otto, diesel and carrot cycle? And how Boyle and Charles wrote their laws. Every one to their own!

Thank you for those gems of information. Your comment
"the knowledge of it" being the important point I think.
Boyles law, and Charles law - I'm past trying to work out equations on volume, expansion, and pressures. All you need to know with the stuff that gets used to make all those motorised valves warm, is that it tends to do nasty things if you put a match to it!

BTW your avatar is one hell of a lot better than most I've seen recently.

I was thinking of a thread on measurements and accuracy in all aspects of DIY work, I've got some ideas, Might get a reaction?

Tango49 wrote:


Thanks for comment on Avatar does my last post measure up to what you want?

Setting lock shield valves is an interesting one. You or me? The use of TRV has really changed things. With central heating running 24/7 and lock shield valves wide open system still works A1. However turn if off and let it cool down and you many need to wait for the summer for it to heat up again.

The comment it was working until we went on holiday is a common comment.

Where it catches me out is fitting an electric timer or thermostat. Worked great until fitted so must be my fault. Can't be the plumbing. But it is. Are you up for it. I look forward to reading.

I'll take this to the central heating forum.

learned so much from this thread. Thanks.

Thank you for your comment mavybenson. and wellcome to the forum. Look forward to hearing from you in the future.